Amnesty director Dagmar Oudshoorn: “A small pebble in the pond can result in a very large ripple.”

Following the presentation of the Issue Award 2022, we spoke with Dagmar Oudshoorn as one of the jury members. Oudshoorn is director of Amnesty International Netherlands, previously she was mayor of Uithoorn (2010-2018) and head of Operations of the Amsterdam police unit. Oudshoorn was also chairman of the advisory board dialogue group on the History of Slavery, which presented its report to the State last July. The Advisory Board gave the government urgent advice to apologize for the history of slavery. We recently spoke to her about Amnesty, her role as director and making an impact.

What themes has Amnesty dealt with in the Netherlands in the past year?

“The human rights situation in the Netherlands has not always been part of our work, but for a number of years we have had a special team for human rights in the Netherlands in which we work on various themes. Last year this included the focus area gender and human rights, with our 'Let's talk about yes-campaign. This was in response to the new rape law, in which we wanted to point out that sex without consent should also fall under rape, contrary to what was previously stated in the new draft law. That has been a successful campaign: on this basis the minister has decided to amend his draft law. Now it still has to go through the legislative process.

Another major theme is ethnic profiling, in which we have filed a lawsuit against the Military Police. The lawsuit was filed after several complaints were filed against the Marechaussee about the use of skin color as a risk indicator during airport controls. Unfortunately we lost that, but we are certainly not done with that yet. We also work on current affairs and provide advice on corona legislation. We are also concerned with police brutality and the theme of technology and human rights, among other things.”

Amnesty recently published a critical piece about 2G policy, how do you make that decision?

“We can be very firm and straightforward on some themes, such as the death penalty. People also find it easier to feel sympathy for the issues that you can be black and white about. However, this is more difficult on themes where you have to weigh rights against each other, such as corona measures.

In the field of corona, we have been really critical of a number of policy measures, because, for example, they were not proportionate, sufficiently democratically verifiable or were not implemented transparently. At the same time, we also state that certain measures, such as a lockdown, are allowed within the set conditions. It is therefore a very balanced story based on human rights treaties. Because some people have difficulty with those kinds of nuances, we received many angry letters about this.”

How do you determine which actions are suitable for a theme?

“Although we have a very broad movement of members, activists and researchers, not all themes lend themselves to certain actions. A campaign like 'Let's talk about yesIn addition to campaigning, 'is also suitable for lobbying on the rape law, but when someone is unjustly imprisoned anywhere, a signature campaign works better. In addition, we are also aware of the fact that a very small stone in a pond can result in a very large ripple. So we are not necessarily concerned with the chance of success when we choose themes to focus on. We look very carefully at what we can do with what resources, because we simply cannot do everything.

Internationally, for example, there are also a number of countries that we do not work in, because there is no point in doing so at the moment. North Korea is an example of this: because it is so closed off and not sensitive to external pressure, there is little point in taking action there. We naturally address the violations at a higher level, but it remains difficult to distinguish between the various human rights violations and the options we have for them.”

Why is it that some issues may not initially lead to an impact, but much is possible at a later time?

“With some themes it sometimes feels like you are shouting in the desert. For example, years ago in the field of racial profiling, it sometimes seemed that everything we tried had little effect. One way in which we deal with this is through awareness, not only within society, but also within the government. For example, we lobby governments and legislators, organize human rights dialogues and inform people via social media. It also varies greatly per theme as to how far that awareness is and how quickly it is growing.”

What are you most proud of over the past two years as director?

“I must say that I am actually very proud of Amnesty itself; that under the circumstances of the pandemic we can continue to do our important substantive work and at the same time recruit new members. Sometimes the world seems to have become more complex, but we can still do our human rights work in a way that allows us to have an impact, despite the setbacks. I am proud that I can contribute to this as director.”